Just As I Am

AMEN!!!!

another penni chimes in....

It's way more important to feed the hungry and work for peace than to spend every waking moment chastising and condemning people for what they do in bed with each other.

amen my sister. i may not comment very often due to time constraints and barely even posting anything on my own space, but when i first heard of this i was like, "who cares? feed someone!!"

susan, you are awesome :)

I went to your link for the service and can only say thank you for that. I have bookmarked the archive section and this will be such an addition to my time. THANK YOU. Yes, you have added to my time!!!

Spoken from the heart and soul as usual... and right on target Susan. You are a sane voice of grace and much needed reason. Bravo!

Umm, he is not a fundamentalist. He's an evangelical, and last
time I checked, there is a difference. Fundamentalist is such a pejorative term these days. But I think you know that, right? He was head of the National Association of EVANGELICALS.

Oh my gosh, could there be "judgment" in your use of calling him a fundamentalist??

Dear Jen,

Perhaps I made bit of a mistake there. I lumped him into that category because his condemnation of gays in Colorado. Every time one takes the risk of expressing an opinion there is the chance of saying something that will be interpretted differently than intended. The church I attended was evangelical, but at one point, they brought in Jerry Falwell to speak. There was a blending of the lines there. If someone calls themselves evangelical but also condemns a whole segment of people ~ that's fundamentalist to me. I don't think I was condemning anyone in this post, rather I was pleading for forgiveness and acceptance and understanding across the board for all people.

I wish you had shared what you see as being the difference between the two, that would open a dialog and would be helpful, and I invite you to do so.

Peace, Susan

Well done, Susan. I thought evangelical and fundamentalist were synonyms myself. I will ask our minister. After reading the book MAYFLOWER I am never surprised when those who claim to be super religious act in direct opposition to what their stated values are for the Pilgrims and Puritains did just that. Why? Greed for land and more money and in the process turned against the friendly Indians who had helped them survive. The first racism on the continent. LOVE one another. Whenever we think we are better than others we get taken down a peg or two.

Janet, part of the problem is with the fact that we're dealing with labels (which are themselves self-restrictive in the amount of information they can present), and part is with the data sets of both the labeler and the person reading the label.

Given "rose" and a link to my place, you'd expect to see one of the "Monday's rose" series (if you'd been there before); but for someone not familiar with my style they wouldn't know whether they'd see a rose garden or a single bloom. ...and neither of you would know how much processing I'd done to present the rose in the manner you'd see (or what color or state of bloom I was using that day). ...and no one would be able to evaluate the aroma of that rose or the environment the shot was taken in without a visit to Central California.

...and while we can exchange information, finding congruency in data sets isn't the same as experiencing the events live.

Onward to "fundamentalist" and "evangelical": Perspective and regional bias are likely going to add to the noise level in any information exchange. As an example, out here the term "fundamentalist" tends to label those who hold tightly to the Bible as "literal Truth", and "evangelical" fits those who are driven to "spread the Word". ...and both of those 'definitions' cross over rather easily into the other camp! ...and do nothing to speak to the name of the church, congregation or governing body.

Susan, I'm not sure there is a politically correct word that wouldn't offend someone, somewhere because of the term's misuse in another context elsewhere!

Janet is my mom and we attended the church I wrote about together, so we have the exact same experience with the terminology.

You can't express an opinion any more without offending someone, I realize this. We've become a nation so quick to be offended, and so afraid of offending, no one knows how to have a healthy debate any more. It is difficult to openheartedly come to the table and really listen to one another because everyone is so polarized these days. We're in a very dangerous place in this respect, both nationally and globally.

If Jesus were with us today he would be working for peace, feeding the poor, and compassionately caring for the misunderstood, forgotten and marginalized in our society. I sincerely doubt his actions would be motivated by anger and a need to control people ~ his life was all about love. It is my hope to nurture these qualities in my own life.

This is a great post, Susan.

I have to tell you, you've given me a new feeling of pity for the man. I'd only heard from other "fundies" (slang to denote certain poseurs of Faith) who just claim to pray for him and his family, forgetting any real progress, calling it a "personal" issue, ignoring that if it was anyone else, they consider the "personal" to be theirs to control. I felt anger to them for not including prayers for those he hurt with his words and deeds, not to mention those that were also closeting their actions with him.

It is endlessly sad that people of real faith and devotion are lumped in with the powermongers and haters to the point we don't even have a way to discuss the difference without offending people who will not read the deeper meaning. / rant. :)

I have to agree absolutely on a number of your points here. Taking "I am jesus' favorite and you aren't" is a way of thinking that is in no way loving, charitable, compassionate, or forgiving-- all of the things that were the very essence of Christ himself. Gotta chat with you soon...

There are so many people out there who are part of the Christian Left - who are helping the poor, working AIDS hospices etc. It's such a shame that all we ever hear about is the Christian Right. I don't like labels but you have to use the term "left" just to set it apart from "right.

Lauren,

Yes, I agree with you too. I will be quick ~ very quick to point out that the Catholics are up at the front of the line when it comes to helping the poor and feeding the hungry. Everyone can learn from their example on this front. Looking forward to chattin with ya too.

AMEN!

Very wonderful post! I have lots of sorrow for the man.

If you live in Virginia PLEASE vote NO tomorrow morning on the marriage ammendment that some right wing fanatics are trying to push through with very little thought. It will create havoc for everyone ... men, women, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, gay, straight, married or otherwise.

we might as well legalize polygamy, then we won't ever have problems with infidelity - homosexual or not.

if your pastor commits adultery, do you not think that he should be disciplined? if your pastor sexually abuses young children, would you still want him in office? acceptance and forgiveness does not remove the consequances one has to face because of one's own choices. does the amish school killer goes free just because the amish community has forgiven him?

it's right that the evengelical cimmunity takes steps to discipline him (it does not mean that they do not accept or forgive him) and from what i've read, they will also he helping him with in terms of healing and restoration.

i am impressed with ted's straight foward and heart felt confession. if i'm an unbeliever, i'd stand up and take notice. this is one person who is not afraid to bear the consequances of his actions. all of us make mistakes but how many as as brave to admit it and submit to authority?

why are people seeing it as a gay issue? to me the main issue is infidelity. if the other party is a female, i wonder if the reaction would be different?

Another AMEN!
Agreed with all you had to say.
God bless your heart and soul.
Keep putting out this good stuff.
We need the motivation to change.
As though what is going on in the
world today, is not enough.
One person can make a difference.
Let it begin with me.
myra

Fundamentalist and Evangelical are labels used by the groups themselves. In that sense they are not pejorative. The rest of us do tend to lump these groups together. The trouble with labels used in this sense is that it is usually a We vs They sense and the "Theys" are on a lower level.

Yes, Pastor Ted's confession seems deep and sincere, but only brought about because of the light being shined on his deception. For whatever reason, he wasn't able to come forward earlier to get help for his "problem." I'm not naming his sexuality as a "problem", but apparently he thought it was a problem he had to hide, yet was compelled to act on. The apparent compelling nature of his urges will give fuel to the fire for those who see homosexuality as bad.

I see the deception as a bigger problem for those around him. Perhaps his preaching against homosexuality was in the category of "thou protests too much."

If this opens a dialog within his larger faith community, then good can come of it.

I really can't believe it if someone quickly says that they "forgive." I think these things take awhile to process and then forgiveness can come, step by step.

However, lets see if the "forgivers" extend as much grace to other prominent people with the same deceptions or life style.

Dear PS,

Thank you for your comment. I love it when someone adds a viewpoint with this much merit, and agree with you that forgiveness often takes time to accomplish. One must figure out the full scope of damage before being able to respond to it. I think everyone is pretty busy reacting at the moment instead of responding.. there's a difference.

On the other hand, I heard a protestant minister explain the Amish approach to the recent slayings in Pennsylvania a number of weeks ago. She said the Amish practice forgiveness in small ways from the time they are toddlers. It's such an integral part of their faith and life that they consciously practice it in small ways all the time. She said this kind of "practicing" makes forgiveness easier and quicker when the really big bad things happen. So, exercising our forgiveness muscles makes us stronger and better at forgiving.

Beautiful, isn't it?